Everyone's Agnostic Podcast
Cass & Bob interview people you don't know about a subject no one wants to talk about--losing faith in the supernatural.

Cass Midgley and Dr. Bob Pondillo interview Dr. Karen Garst. She blogs at faithlessfeminist.com, she is the author of "Women Beyond Belief: Discovering Life without Religion." In 2014, the U. S. Supreme Court issued its decision in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby. She was incensed and thought, “Since when did a ‘corporation’ get to use its religious beliefs to dictate what health care a woman could receive?" She decided to write a book on atheism and the harm religion has done to women. It is an anthology of personal essays from women of all ages who have left religion. It's published by Pitchstone Publishing. Richard Dawkins, Peter Boghossian, and others wrote blurbs for the book. Karen invites you to find her blog, her Facebook page, her YouTube Channel, and follow her on Twitter @karen_garst. If you need help finding her, there's links to all her stuff in the show notes. So connect with her, she's really cool, as you soon shall see.  

We taped this conversation on June 25th, 2017. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:
"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU
Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson
The segue music is on this episode was created by the Barry Orchestra found at https://barryorchestra.bandcamp.com/

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.

Sarah Silverman is visited by Jesus Christ

www.faithlessfeminist.com

https://www.facebook.com/faithlessfeminist/?ref=bookmarks

Karen Garst's YouTube Channel

Wendy Marsman's Podcast: Women Beyond Belief http://womenbeyondbelief.com/

 


Direct download: Ep_159_Karen_Garst.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 5:09pm CDT
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Cass Midgley and Bob Pondillo interview Josh Hupp. Josh has spent the last ten years trying to rebuild his life and identity after escaping the grip of a Christian Cult he was in for 10 years. As per the cult leader's demands, he broke off ties with his family, physically abused fellow cult members, and was himself beat up by other cult members, while his wife at the time watched--a wife that the cult leaders picked for him to marry.

Before we get into our talk with Josh, I want to plug the book "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life" by Mark Manson. I got it on audiobook and the first chapter is the best summary of what it means to be a yes-sayer that I've ever heard.  Just like all self-help material, I don't agree with all of it, but overall, this book posits my philosophy of life as close as anything I've ever heard. I truly believe it will change your life for the better by leaps and bounds.

Also, I received an email from a listener and supporter of this podcast, John Rexrode from Akron, Ohio, that is really well written and rich in thought. He writes,

Hi Cass, I do want to thank you and Bob for the podcast. I have just recently started listening and find myself enjoying it very much.

One of the things I like most about your podcast is how willing you are to share the stories of everyone, including those with whom you don't entirely agree. I just finished listening to the conversation with Cheri Jamison. She seems like a good person and what a shame it would have been to have excluded her ideas and thoughts for a broader perspective. You should be commended for being willingly inclusive.

It would not be inaccurate to call me an atheist, but I dislike the term specifically because too many atheists are as dogmatic in their unbelief as christians are in their belief. I understand well the anger, hurt, intellectual distrust, and historical perspective for this dogmatic response. I have had the same reactionary responses myself for many years, and I continue to do so under certain conditions. However, now that I am older, retired, and hopefully a little more insightful about life and myself, (or is it actually early dementia?) I find I am no longer as sure or as smart as I once thought myself. Or maybe I am just worn out and tired of all the bickering. I want to find a way to care, accept, and mutually tolerate others.

My life and work is based in science. Science and math are great constructs as constructs go, but they still only expose the very tip of what may actually exist. The quantum enigma exposes this vulnerability quite well despite the protestations or denial of scientists saying otherwise.

Can any of us really be so convinced that our own opinions are representative of “objective reality”? Can any of us even know what “objective reality” is, being the primitive little primates that we are? I am not talking about our collective objective reality as humans. I think we can speculate on that just fine and my opinions are as good as anyone's. I am talking about actual “objective reality” which I believe will always be beyond our reach.

I am as intolerant of intolerance as one can be, but should it matter to me if people believe things I find ludicrous or silly if it makes life easier or happier for them and they are good people. Many of the things I think and believe are actually emotionally based and not actually true. There are some fairly recent neurological studies that actually support the idea that all our opinions and conscious thoughts originate as emotions. Our thoughts may all be rationalizations for our emotions.

I enjoyed Frank Schaeffer (that's way back on episode 21) on your program and read his book. You tuned me into Mike McHargue (aka Science Mike) and I read his book. I found his “wave” experience too much for me, but since his wife threatened to leave him and his mother was pressuring him, to speak nothing of his life being turned upside down, is it really any wonder that his mind gave him something to bridge the gap? At least his religion is now apparently loving and less toxic.

I am going to write something that will sound arrogant but I don't mean for it to be. I just think that while some people like us, may be perfectly capable of devising our own moral system and fiber, many people are not. They are not as intense or intuitive because they have no interest in being so. They need some sort of moral structure and religions offer that in prepackaged form. Unfortunately, these religions are often toxic, hateful and hurtful.

So I am drawn in my later years to try and make peace with people and my past. I am attempting to find some kind of connection beyond, or in spite of, our disparate dogmas. It is a real struggle for me since like you, I have many emotions and past conflicts to deal with. I find your program very timely and helpful with that.

Take care and may you be at ease,
John Rexrode

My thanks to John for articulating his desire to "care, accept, and mutually tolerate others." You can hear the humility that comes with age and the self-confidence it takes to admit that we don't know everything. He also understands that some people aren't as interested in the truth as others, or spelunking the caves of philosophy and critical thinking or need a pre-fab moral framework to guide their lives. They're comfortable in their beliefs and really don't want to be bothered with disrupting those comforts. And as long as they're not assholes about it or are making the world a worse place, leave 'em be. Of course, some could argue that they are passively extending the life of toxic religions on a macro level, but I think we all have friends and family that we have to keep the peace with on a micro level and John's wisdom here is giving us permission to pick our battles wisely.  

And can I just say that I have really impressive listeners. Every week I get emails and messages from listeners that without exception are well thought out, well articulated, and full of integrity, compassion, and virtue-seeking people. The communities that have been built around this podcast--some online and some in person--are full of the most impressive people I've ever seen assembled. And I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I take great encouragement from the quality of people this show attracts.  And John's email reminds me that while we atheists are truly taking the moral high road, we would do well to not do so while looking down on religionists from our high horse.

We taped this conversation on June 24th, 2017. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:
"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU
Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson
The segue music is on this episode was created by our guest today, Josh Hupp, and we feature an original number by Josh at the end.

 

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.


Direct download: ep_158_Josh_Hupp.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 7:33pm CDT
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Cass Midgley interviews Cheri Jamison. Cheri grew up in Self-Realization Fellowship (founded by Paramahansa Yogananda in 1920), a sort of blend of Christianity and Hinduism, and went through a very painful transition out of it around 2007. She faced a rude awakening regarding her naive ambitions about SRF while taking a religious studies class in college. She went on to earn a Masters in Spiritual Psychology in 2014. She was able to let go of feeling "stuck in limbo" between her loyalty issues with SRF and fully embracing what was true for her today as an adult. Today, she is an ordained minister MSIA-- which  is "The Church of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness," founded by John-Roger.

Inspired by my own deep healing work, Cheri created a 5-week group program called "Religion of Origin Healing," which helps others make peace with their own spiritual journey and honestly examine any tenets they may have inherited that no longer serve them.

Now, as a warning, this episode is 1) without Bob; he was still on vacation when I taped it, and 2) Cheri is what some would call woo-woo. She meditates, in fact, her mother taught her how to meditate at age 2, and she's active in Unity Church in Kansas City. You may remember Unity was a church that was part of my journey, where the Bible is their main text, but an extremely open and liberal approach to spirituality. I'm just saying that it may not be anti-theist enough for you, if that's what floats your boat, however, Cheri is a smart, honest, mature, emotionally intelligent person who has, like most of us, picked her beliefs wisely and with personal agency in tact. She earned my respect during this conversation, even though my inner-skeptic was a bit irritated at first, as you'll see. We're very honest with each other and she stays in the ring strong and confident. I think you're gonna like this talk, I wouldn't have published it if I didn't think it had value.  

We taped this conversation on June 10th, 2017. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:
"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU
Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson
The segue music is on this episode was created by Top Shelf Sounds on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NItAIPJuk4I

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.

http://www.cherijamison.com/

You can continue this conversation with her about your own "religion of origin healing" by writing  cheri@cherijamison.com

Direct download: Ep_157_Cheri_Jamison.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 9:02pm CDT
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Cass Midgley interviews Brian Peck. Brian is a licensed clinical social worker in Boise, Idaho, who specializes in faith transitions and religious-based trauma. His practice, Room to Thrive PLLC grew out of a desire to reduce the suffering unique to faith transitions and to trauma experienced within a religious context.

We taped this conversation on June 6th, 2017. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:
"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82Tux
Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson
The segue music is on this episode was performed on a handpan by Sam Maher in the NY City Subway

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.

https://www.roomtothrive.com/welcome/

 

 

 

 

Direct download: Ep_156_Brian_Peck.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 12:37am CDT
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Cass Midgley features two guests: a return visit with author Jeff Bates on his new book, "Zombies R A Problem." And our second guest is the sister of our guest from episode 147, Josey, the eldest of 12 home-schooled kids, well this is Hannah, the next born who preceded Josey in leaving the house and leaving Christianity and she's quite a strong personality and gets very vulnerable in this talk. We don't use their last name but it almost could be the Duggers, except these two broke out. These are two 45 minute interviews and unfortunately both are without my co-host Dr. Bob because he was out town on summer vacation for both.  

We taped the conversation with Jeff on May 7th, 2017 and the talk with Hannah on June 3rd. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:
"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU
Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson
The segue music is on this episode was performed by the Barry Orchestra 

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.

Jeffery Bates' Amazon page

Video mentioned about of the Universe inside

 

Direct download: Ep_155_Jeff_Bates__Hannah.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 7:38pm CDT
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Cass Midgley and Dr. Bob Pondillo interview Ginna. Ginna is a 32 year old software engineer living and working in New York City.  She graduated from St. Olaf College with degrees in history and English, but transitioned into software development after the recession hit. Ginna grew up in a non-denominational / charismatic Christian household.  From an early age, she was fully immersed in the world of Christian school and Christian culture. She describes herself as having spent every moment trying to be a better follower of Jesus -- asking Jesus into her heart at age 3, reading the whole Bible as a young teen, memorizing scripture, praying, being active in youth group.  But as she came into adulthood, Ginna went through an experience with clinical depression that led her to question everything.

We taped these conversations on May 6th, 2017. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:

"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU

Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson

The segue music is on this episode was performed on a handpan by Sam Maher in the NY City Subway

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.

Direct download: Ep_154_Ginna.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:21am CDT
Comments[0]

Cass Midgley and Dr. Bob interview Casper Rigsby.  Casper is a prolific blogger with Atheist Republic, and the Chief Publishing Officer of the organization. In 2015 he personally published 7 books, including the best-selling title, "The Bible in a Nutshell." His work ranges from comedic blasphemy to philosophical inquiry and discourse. He was also nominated in 2015 for the Hitchens Prize which recognizes “an author or journalist whose work reflects a commitment to free expression and inquiry, ‭ ‬a range and depth of intellect, ‭ ‬and a willingness to pursue the truth without regard to personal or professional consequence.”

 

We taped these conversations on April 18th, 2017. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:
"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU
Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.

Casper's blog on Atheist Republic

Casper's books

Casper's FB profile

 

 

Direct download: Ep_153_Casper_Rigsby.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:55am CDT
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Cass Midgley and Bob Pondillo interview Gleb Tsipursky. He's an Assistant Professor in the History Department at Ohio State. He earned a bachelors from NYU, a masters from Harvard, and a PhD from UNC Chapel Hill. He specializes in behavioral science and is keen on how authoritarian regimes take over countries. He was raised in a Jewish household in Russia til he was 10 , but never personally adopted Judaism and is today non-religious.  As a part of the Rational Politics project, Gleb co-founded Intentional Insights (dot org) and the Pro-Truth Pledge (dot org).  

A current tragedy of the commons we're all experiencing today is our eroding confidence in differentiating truth from lies. Gleb is inviting everyone to take the Pro-Truth Pledge. It provides a tool that motivates all who take it to share accurate information and avoid sharing misinformation.

As you've probably figured out, this episode is highly political and if you're a Trump supporter, this is not gonna be a fun ride for you. Gleb paints a much scarier picture of things than I previously assessed. Up until this conversation, I had deemed Trump an idiot. And appealing to idiots. Gleb says otherwise. Gleb even says that Trump is emotionally intelligent, that he knows exactly what he's doing, and knows what to say and what persona to present in order to get elected and to influence people. This is a game-changer. Now keep in mind, Gleb is a Russian immigrant, he has a PhD in History with an emphasis on behavioral science. This is not a conspiracy theorist. This isn't a talking head punding shit out of his ass. This is research based observations, first hand accounts, and historical patterns and examples from  other countries and eras.

I know this is a bit doomsdayish, but Chris Hedges concurs with Gleb's perspective as voiced in a recent article titled, "The End of the Republic." The following is an excerpt from that piece:

"Trump and our decaying empire have ominous historical precedents. If the deep state replaces Trump, whose ineptitude and imbecility are embarrassing to the empire, that action will not restore our democracy any more than replacing Commodus restored democracy in Rome. Our republic is dead.

Societies that once were open and had democratic traditions are easy prey for the enemies of democracy. These demagogues pay deference to the patriotic ideals, rituals, practices and forms of the old democratic political system while dismantling it. When the Roman Emperor Augustus—he referred to himself as the “first citizen”—neutered the republic, he was careful to maintain the form of the old republic. Lenin and the Bolsheviks did the same when they seized and crushed the autonomous soviets. Even the Nazis and the Stalinists insisted they ruled democratic states. Thomas Paine wrote that despotic government is a fungus that grows out of a corrupt civil society. This is what happened to these older democracies. It is what happened to us."

After this conversation, Bob and I both took the Pro-Truth Pledge. I hope you benefit from our talk with Gleb Tsipursky.

We taped these conversations on April 18th, 2017. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:
"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU
Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson
The segue music is on this episode was created by the Barry Orchestra, found at barryorchestra.bandcamp.com

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.

https://www.protruthpledge.org/

http://intentionalinsights.org/

http://intentionalinsights.org/heel-in-chief-donald-trump-and-the-psychology-of-pro-wrestling

Chris Hedges' article

 

Direct download: Ep_152_Gleb_Tsipursky.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 12:55am CDT
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Cass Midgley and Mark Stephens interview 2 students from Vanderbilt University, Stephen Lee and John Roso. They met through the Secular Student Alliance. Bob was out of town for this one so Mark Stephens is filling in. 

Also, we open with a 20 minute talk with Gayle Jordan, the executive director of Recovering From Religion, an online resource for people wrestling with their faith and wanting someone to talk to. They have a helpline and chat opportunities and a wealth of resources to point callers to. They help from a neutral position, not trying to influence callers toward any particular belief or unbelief, just be active listeners.

Followed by our talk with two Vanderbilt seniors who just graduated this last weekend and who I met through the Secular Student Alliance there on campus. John is a Philosophy major going on to a Masters in it. Stephen is a BioMed Engineering Major. They are roommates and we get to peer into the life of two millennials, both age 21, and their personal histories with Christianity and their journey out of it. And we discuss the collective consciousness of ants.

We taped these conversations on April 15th, 2017. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:
"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU
Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson
The segue music is on this episode was created by the Barry Orchestra, found at barryorchestra.bandcamp.com

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.

Let's Paint, Exercise and Blend Drinks Video

C Span prank caller compilation

https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/

 

Direct download: Ep_151_Stephen_Lee__John_Rosso.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 4:23pm CDT
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Cass Midgley and Dr. Bob Pondillo interview Amy Monsky. She's the executive director for Camp Quest Southeast, bringing a week of fun, friends, and freethought to kids (and adults!) in North and South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, and Alabama.  Amy first became involved in Camp Quest in 2010 after learning about it the previous year while searching for a secular alternative to Boy Scouts.  After that first transformative week, Amy went on to found Camp Quest South Carolina which now serves over 110 kids, and is now expanding Camp Quest locations throughout the southeast, including Camp Quest Natchez Trace in Mississippi, operating for the first time this June, and Camp Quest Florida, which is tentatively set to open in 2018.  Amy lives and breathes camp, and any of her free time is spent developing camp activities with her children as guinea pigs or reading about positive youth development and the latest articles from the American Camp Association.  Amy lives with her family in Charleston, South Carolina.

 

We taped this conversation on April 9th, 2017. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated.

Credits:
"Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU
Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson
The segue music is on this episode was created by the Barry Orchestra, found at barryorchestra.bandcamp.com

Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is.

amy.monsky@campquest.org

www.campquestsc.org

http://womenbeyondbelief.com/

http://www.hingepodcast.org/


Direct download: Ep_150_Amy_Monsky_-_Camp_Quest.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 11:22pm CDT
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